Interview with Apollo Amoko

Lead actor in "The Island," performed at the University of Michigan Museum of Art
Ann Arbor, Michigan, November 19, 2000


Interview with Apollo Amoko, 4         "The Island" is a play written in 1975 by the internationally acclaimed white South African playwright Athol Fugard, in collaboration with black actors John Kani and Winston Ntshona.  It recounts a well-known interpretation of Sophocles' Antigone that was staged by the prisoners of Robben Island, off the South African coast, in the late 1960s.  In the Robben Island production, the man who volunteered to play the role of Creon was a prisoner with little stage experience named Nelson Mandela.
         University of Michigan graduate students Apollo Amoko and Darius Cobb play internees in the South African prison camp who have been cellmates for almost three years.  John, the character played by Mr. Amoko, is a passionate, fiery, and overbearing intellectual, consumed with preparations for the prisoners' presentation of Antigone.  He has bullied his cellmate, Winston, into playing the title role, and berates him for his slowness to learn the part and his later reluctance to carry through with his commitment to play it at all.  When John finds out that his sentence has been commuted, and he has only three more months to serve in the penal colony, however, the roles reverse.  At first, John offers generously not to talk with Winston about his impending freedom.  But he can't help counting the days.  Bitterly, Winston reminds him that he will be left behind, and that John will quickly forget him.  John is tortured by guilt as Winston tells him what his freedom will be like.  "Your freedom stinks, John," Winston tells him.  "You will laugh, you will eat, you will fuck, and you will forget.  Fuck slogans.  Fuck politics.  I am jealous of your freedom, John."  
         The climax of the play is in the prisoners' performance of Antigone.  John plays Creon, the head of state, who has sentenced Antigone to death for burying her brother, Polyneices, a traitor, next to that of her other brother, Eteocles, who defended the state.  The hero was buried with all honors, but Polyneices's grave was to be left open.  Antigone defied the law by burying the body of her brother.  It is clear that, on a purely political level, the trial and punishment of Antigone is a story of the ancient struggle against injustice, and this is what made it so passionately representative of the South Africans' struggle against political oppression.  The moral issues that arise between John and Winston, however, are even more compelling, and elevate the play from a purely political level to a spiritual one.
         "Winston is, for me, ultimately the more interesting character," Apollo Amoko told me, as we talked about the performance a few days after the event.  "To me, the pivotal moment is the third scene, when John is going home in three months.  I don't think that the fourth scene--the staging of Antigone, with Antigone's sense of 'Even in death I have conquered'--quite answers the image of Winston that we have at the end of the previous scene--the image of this man who, as John says, put his head on the block for others, and then says 'Fuck the others'.  The reading to which I'm inclined is that Winston is crushed.  That's the image that the third scene leaves us with.  He tries really hard to be happy for John, that John is going away.  And he tries really hard to say that there are higher ideals, and that it's worth sacrificing your life for the sake of these higher ideals.  And then, I think, he says, 'Maybe it isn't'."
         Interview with Apollo Amoko, 3"My reaction," I responded, "was that, in this play, we see how the system of injustice imposed by the white regime upon the South African black majority did not stop at enforcing inequality between white and black, but replicated this same inequality in the prison itself, and among the inmates themselves.  The sentencing system was completely arbitrary, and this produced inequality in exactly the place where one would expect to find equality.  Even though all the prisoners were serving sentences, you actually found inequality among them, because they were all different sentences."  
         "That's completely true," Apollo agreed.  "For instance, Winston says to John, 'Forget me.  Forget me because I'm going to forget you.'  And then he says, 'Others will come like you, and count like you, and go like you, and I'll still be here.'  He's sort of a heroic figure, because he's sacrificed everything, and he's there for life, with no prospect of being released.  And I guess for me the big question that I think the third scene is posing is, 'Is that a fair sacrifice to ask from anybody?'"  
         "To me, this brings up the question of the inherent unfairness or arbitrariness of life, in general," I commented.  We're all stuck here, am I right?  We're all serving some kind of penal servitude, in a way.  But we have different types of sentences that we're serving, and some sentences are lighter and some are harder."      
         "Yes, I agree with that, in general," Apollo replied, "with the provision that, of course, this is a particularly extreme example.  I guess that I'm coming up with a very pessimistic reading of what the play is about.  It's surprising me as I'm articulating it.  But I think at least it opens a possibility to say that, rather than just looking at these gestures of incredible bravery and self-sacrifice, like Winston's or Antigone's--these incredible triumphs--that one might pose the question whether it is ever justified to put anybody in that situation, whether it is ever justified to ask anybody to put his head on the block for others, and what it really means to say that there are higher ideals before which we can sacrifice everything, before which we can sacrifice our families, our children, our freedom."
         "When you refer to Winston's self-sacrifice, you mean those actions that landed him in prison, in the first place, am I right?" I asked.
         "Yes, of course."
         "But in the course of the play itself, he does not sacrifice himself.  His life has already been taken away from him."
         "Yes.  That's why I like the third scene.  He's not a heroic character.  He's a beaten down man who's given up on life."
         "I had a different reaction to it," I insisted.  "I see that he's beaten down, but to me, the fact that he's beaten down gives him greater clarity.  You have to be beaten down before you can realize what life is all about.  He has greater insight than John does.  When he says, 'I'll forget you, John,' he's really dismissing him.  He realizes that the reality of his future life in prison will have nothing to do with the fate of others, either in the prison or in the outside world, but will hinge purely on how he is able to adapt to his own personal circumstances."
         Interview with Apollo Amoko, 2"I agree that the play does ask profound questions about how does one measure the worth of one's life in situations of extreme desperation and deprivation," Apollo offered.
         "To me, it doesn't necessarily have to do with extreme desperation and deprivation," I countered.  "I see the same issues in the most ordinary situations in daily life.  I see people measuring themselves against others, people who are not content with their lives, who wonder what they've done with their lives.  These people have been tricked or coerced by society to think less of their own achievements than those of others.  And I think that this offers a deeper parallel to Antigone, because in the play Antigone honors both her brothers, despite the fact that one received approbation, the other vilification, by the state.  The lesson here is that there is dignity in the most ordinary and even wretched human circumstances.  It is only when we allow ourselves to be convinced that, because of our circumstances, we have lost our dignity, that we are undone.  This principle can be applied to every facet of life, not just to political inequality and injustice.  It can be applied to any situation in which we are made to feel unequal or unworthy, whether because of our appearance, our background, or our achievement.  So the play is not necessarily about people who make great sacrifices for a higher cause, but about the way ordinary people choose to live their lives on a daily basis."
         "What makes this interesting for me, on a personal level, is that I'm not looking for a great big cosmic answer," Apollo confided.  "I'm not about to make dramatic gestures of self-sacrifice like either Winston or John.  I, personally, do not think that I have the capacity."
         "I agree with you," I said.  "First of all, I don't think I have the capacity, either.  Most people don't.  Secondly, self-sacrifice is a double-edged sword.  It can be the gesture of a hero or a fool.  The really hard thing to do is to accept your life, your destiny, and who you are.  That's very difficult."  
         "It seems to me that the extremity of the circumstances in the play makes such choices much more clear-cut," Apollo maintained.
         "Of course, it dramatizes the existential situation," I conceded.  "If you have a person facing life in prison, that's about as dramatic an existential situation as one can find.  But it's still an existential situation that we all share.  Just the other day, I was watching a show on TV, in which they were interviewing prisoners who were serving life sentences.  These prisoners have their whole lives ahead of them, and the most fulfilling activity they can look forward to is picking up trash within the prison grounds.  One of the prisoners told how he had found a wounded bird, helped the bird to heal, and set it free.  For him, that was a great contribution that he was able to make to life--more meaningful than anything else that he had been able to do in ten years' time.  That's an extreme example, yet we're all wrestling with the same problem of how to make a contribution to life with whatever limited resources and opportunities we possess."  
         We parted on the corner of State and Liberty, in Ann Arbor, next to a town landmark--a two-story mural of Woody Allen, Edgar Alan Poe, T.S. Eliot, Franz Kafka, and Gertrude Stein.  They were all writers who had made a contribution to our modern culture, and who had been privileged to do so.  From a political perspective, there was an immense gulf that separated their privileged experience from that of the political prisoners represented in the play.  But then I thought of the example of Antigone, who buried the bodies of her two brothers side-by-side, and I wondered whether this gulf was not simply an illusion.
 
Date Submitted:
7/17/01
Copyright Information:
"The Island," a one-act play devised by Athol Fugard, John Kani, and Winston Ntshona. Directed by Michael Dickman. Sponsored by The University of Michigan Program in Compararative Literature, Museum of Art, Department of Classics, Department of English, Global Ethnic Literatures Seminar, and the Detroit South Africa Project. Photo by Edward West, from the project Casting Shadows, 1999.